Cross-dressing, Trapping

>>684 The below is going to side with you on the assumption that your God is real, which of course it isn't but beside the point.

The bible is only used as a tool to show you what you shouldn't do anymore. Its my belief that if your God existed, and he was such a loving God, he would want you to do what makes you happy, and fuckall the rest think cuz hes God.

You can say it's God's will that you stay the way you were made, but by that logic didn't he also create you with a female mind/heart?

>>689 no

As a devout/traditional Catholic myself, I've thought through this countless times. My conclusion is that it's best to move ahead with your transition because it's for the greater good.

Most of the so-called "sinfulness" has more to do with fettishistic crosdressing which, like any fettish, should be minimized because of its role as a sexual trigger.

Andrea James has a decent, albeit vague article, which serves as a starting point to find more info on the matter: http://www.tsroadmap.com/mental/spirit.html

Basically, trapping is just a collection of benign, non-sinful acts serving a benign, non-sinful purpose.

(SRS, if you're even interested, is a bit more tricky to justify, given the whole genital mutilation thingy, but can still be done if you think it out.)

Mark 9:43-47 (If your ___ is causing you to sin, cut it off, ...) seems to speak of how changes to one's self (even ones normally considered sinful) can be just if done for one's greater good and salvation. If continuing to live as a male is causing you discomfort and pain, and transitioning would help you get your life in order, to live more fully in the glory of God, by all means, you should proceed.

(I'm thinking if the congregation at my parish don't like it whenever I transition, I'll migrate over to the Latin parish & stealth. =P)

As far as family goes, if they're worth anything, they'll continue to love you regardless. Even if they disapprove, they'll come to accept (even if not endorse) after enough time. Especially if it's something so important to you.

>>692

OP here, and thank you so much Jen, that's the answer I was hoping for.

>>694
Not a Christian here, so I don't know if my oppion is going to carry any weight, but doesn't the christian God put people through trials all the time? That doesn't make you a sinner, conversely, maybe you were meant to go through this process and learn something gain some sort of meaningful experience.

Ugh, christianity is the number one cause of suffering for both us and quite a few other groups.

Yet people still push for gay marriage.

>>696
Well various misinterpretations of Christianity, yes.

Jesus' original teaching has always been to be charitable and understanding towards the people society has rejected.

The way I see it, God is all about compassion and forgiveness. Crossdressing or transitioning does no harm to anybody, so why would He hate or condemn people for it? I think people should be judged by their character and virtues, rather than such a relatively minor thing as gender identity. Being against transgenderism isn't Christianity, it's just bigotry.

I have never actually posted before, lurked a lot. This one actually kind of hit home for me though.

I was born and raised christian. I knew I was bi since I was 11 and since I was 12 I knew I was supposed to be a woman. I hated myself for years, I was always taught homosexuality was a sin, I didn't feel like I was in the right body, my feelings for other men only made me hate myself even more.

Recently I came to terms with it. I had outted myself to s few close friends but a few months ago I finally outted myself to my family and to the world.

I came to this conclusion. God gave us 10 commandments and not one of them said thou shalt not be gay. I read the passages about homosexuality and I still was not convinced that they meant that gay men and women will go to hell. Teachings are that God loves us as his (or her) children and like any parent just wants us to be happy and respect them.

I know for sure that homosexuality, bi-sexuality, gender issues, all of that is not a choice and to even suggest it is is idiotic at best. I never lived or dressed as a woman (except when I could get away with it), I don't have the money, I'm uninsured, and even though I'm out to my family I still am worried about how they would react if they were brought face to face with it. I am working barely above minimum wage in a state with a 13% unemployment rate in some areas, I'm lucky to have a job at all. I have to pay my own way through college and chances are even if I am lucky enough to find someone understanding enough to spend my life with that I will never be able to go through the MTF process because it will be too late in life to be able to afford it.

Right now I am more worried about how to even go about finding someone to be with. There are little to no dating sites to meet transgendered in the state I live in, and the ones there are have been inactive for months or years.

What I am saying is that (no bible bashing please) God loves all of us like children and wants us to be happy. If you know you were born with an XY body and an XX mind then it is nothing more than a birth defect that can be cosmetically fixed at least. God will always love you, so concentrate on the important things in life like living a happy one. Find someone who understands and cares and share that life.

Being anything is never a sin. Whoever says so is a bigoted moron who makes the rest of Christiandom look like idiots.

The only rule in Canon Law dealing with sex is symmetric between straight and gay pairings.

(Marriage is a tangled mess which I don't even want to deal with right now. To summarize, the church's definition of gender is obsolete.)

>>701
Don't be hating on yourself for stuff that isn't wrong. Read the thread to understand why being who you are is OK. It's all about what you do with it.

It sucks being broke. I was there not so recently. I actually got an incredibly lucky break when a well-paying job in my field was basically handed to me ... from someone at my church, of all places, given the topic. I'm still going to feel the money pinch upon moving out, which I'll need to do in order to transition. (Those in my family who do know think pursuing it is foolish, and those who don't know ... don't know for a reason.)

So point being you never know when opportunity might come knocking. Your situation could change in an instant.

And you can transition at any age. The completeness of hormone feminization does go down with age, but you can offset this with determination & skill. There are MTFs who transitioned in their 40s and still pass consistently.

>>703

Same poster from 701. I don't hate myself anymore. I used to and I realized finally that I was made how I was made and if I was made this way there was a reason and God doesn't hate me for the way he made me. It took a long time, but I am happier.

Oddly I somehow thought coming out would be a much bigger life changing event. I didn't expect balloons to fall from the ceiling or anything, but still... I just expected something more. Being bi has it's own troubles not the least of which are that you receive hate from both the straight and gay community, but that was to be expected. I didn't expect more women to hit on me simply because I was bi, I always assumed the 2 women thing was a male only fantasy, never knew 2 guys was a woman fantasy.

Back to the thread though. I was a devout christian for years, I still am a Christian, I pray and talk to God, I just don't believe in church anymore. From personal experience, never let something like this stand in the way of being happy. You don't have to abandon your faith just because you were born male when you should have been female. To some of us a penis is just a birth defect, like a cleft palette it can be fixed.

Another reason I have for not going through with it though is that I would give anything to be a woman, but I want ovaries and all. To have children. To be a real woman. Gender reassignment would leave me unable to have kids as a male or female. That is something I want and freezing sperm and so on is just another added expense for something that I can't afford anyway.

For now I intend to learn how to put on make-up. Start by dressing the part. When I have the money to move maybe years down the road I can start living the part.

Op again,

>>701 >>705 I almost cried reading your story, because from what you said it sounds almost exactly like me, I mean right now even my state is pretty bad, I live in Michigan so I know all about the unemployment problems too, and the job I have, I'm making just above minimum wage on a part time and that's hardly making rent.

But I'm so glad for you and Jentrap, who seem to know what I'm going through and can offer some advice and comfort. Also thank you to anyone posting in this thread it makes me so happy getting this level of support.

>>706

Same one as 701 and 705, I really should make a name. Oh well.

I am also from Michigan, so you know how bad it is. Luckily I'm from the Grand Rapids, K-Zoo side, I hear Detroit is up to 14% unemployment.

I stumbled across this chan from other chans and fell in love with half the TS/TGs so haven't left.

Oddly I found the help and support I needed most not from offline friends or family, but from a facebook group. You have to be careful, most groups are just straight guys or girls looking for threesomes or webcam or cyber, lying about being bi just to get some. I got lucky though, I met a few people who had been out for a while. They showed me dating sites and talked to me about everything I could think of.

Being bi, especially when you know you should have been born a woman is difficult to say the least. You get crap from the gay community telling you that bis are just confused and are really gay, straights who say the same with a different twist, religious nutjobs who think you will burn in hell because your hair touched your shoulders, hate mongers, and all round general douchebags to make your life hell. Add in a gender identity issue and you're left alone in the cold by pretty much anyone who hasn't been there.

I wish I could give you good news, but it only is going to get harder. If you can find someone who loves you and supports you for who you are, grab on and don't let go. Never give up though, I know what it's like not feeling right in the body you were born with so you're not alone.

Halloween is coming up so it gives me an excuse to express myself. I suggest you do the same. Luckily I have a sister who used to be my size and she has a very cute long skirt, thinking black stockings underneath. Hair is short right now though, but hopefully I can do something with it to be passable at least.

Oh and by the way, if you ever heard of a town called Allegan, maybe you could look me up sometime ;)

the bible is merely a collection of primitive yet honorable stories and parables written by bronzed-aged nomads wandering the desert.

as for god(s), if one exist such a god is clearly an absentee hands-off entity that probably doesn't give a shit about our tiny 4 dimensional world of time and space. i think you're in the clear.

as for 'staying the way you're made' that's a ludicrous argument. everything from tattoos to dentists change our core so-called divinely created human image. ppl have plastic surgery and dye their hair all the time. what's the difference.

if anybody says its against god's will simply tell them god came to you in a dream and said to change into a woman. pretty much all religion is based on a guy who talked to god in a 'vision' so you will have pitted their superstitious ridiculous paganism against them for which they can have no argument.

however if you argue logically that it is pretty fucking obvious the bible is man made and mystical beings don't give a flying fuck about earth or it's inhabitants (last time I checked, no divine intervention in genocides or cancer) then they'll just claim you don't understand and while they will still accept you, they'll assume you'll just revert back and get married and have 2.5 kids because it's just a fad or evil temptation or some bullshit.

after 20 or so years they'll finally accept you and stop giving a shit. at least my psycho religious family did when my sis came out of the closet.

if all else fails, there's always SFO and NYC, or Canada.

>>727
No need to troll. The CHRISTIAN OPINION here is already that transgenderism is okay.

>>734
of course the opinion here is that it's ok.

good luck trying to tell that to the vatican, the billy graham institute of oppression which has the president's ear and wacky baptists who bring guns to gay marriage town hall debates.

religion is a joke, in 2,000yrs when we become a type II civilization nobody is gonna care about some cult leader named jesus aka david koresh and his martydom complex.

Gleefully ignoring Rule 14 but wtf. I like debates.

It's human nature to grasp at what we can't fathom. (CS Lewis forwarded a strong argument for the existence of God using this fact.) Nothing in the collective human knowledge precludes the existence of a creator. This creator might be disinterested, but might also want us to be autonomous so we can develop in our own right. We aren't really alive if our every action is decided by some omnipotent being.

I follow the Vatican, btw, and am happily transitioning. I couldn't care less if they still consider me a guy, and that's the only controversial thing they said on this front.

Baptists don't follow Rome. And last I checked, they don't wield guns at public meetings. You're thinking of skinheads and other nutjobs who make the rest of us look bad.

2000 years is not enough time to figure out how to bend the laws of physics enough to harness the total energy output of the sun. Maybe a million. And yes, the people then will still be grasping at the unknown.

A lot of this coming out trouble is caused by you no longer being "the person they thought you were." Whether total BS or not, in their minds, you sort of die to them and are replaced with someone else. They don't like this so they suffer emotionally, but eventually come to grips. Religion rarely plays a role, aside from possibly being the misconstrued source of your own denial.